tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post435472083749417233..comments2024-01-23T17:14:04.067-05:00Comments on Jaltcoh: The linguistic quirks of Mitt Romney and Barack ObamaJohn Althouse Cohenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-33935985464665403412012-06-21T22:47:55.592-04:002012-06-21T22:47:55.592-04:00I read McWhorter's claim that Gosh and Gee are...I read McWhorter's claim that Gosh and Gee are dissimulations with great mirth. The fellow simply doesn't know Mormon culture. As an I-95 corridor raised cynic who then was graduated from Brigham Young University I can report first hand that when you remove all the curse words from a language, as Mormons do when speaking, you use the other richnesses the language offers. Ask McClueless to search the script for Napolean Dynamite for the words Gosh and Gee and see just how much dissimulation those folks were doing.<br /><br />There's no flipping way this guy knows what he's talking about.<br /><br />Nick D'Orazio<br />Chandler, AZ by way of Provo, Utah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-63944879391794409732012-06-21T22:30:06.090-04:002012-06-21T22:30:06.090-04:00"Flapdoodle" is a favorite of mine."Flapdoodle" is a favorite of mine.Critterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04452486400885521156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-17413012890362108732012-06-21T17:03:07.161-04:002012-06-21T17:03:07.161-04:00So, we now have to elect a President who sounds li...So, we now have to elect a President who sounds like a Gunnery Sargent with a toothache?<br /><br />If that is what this election is about, we are in much deeper trouble that I had reckoned on.Fat Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09554029467445000453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-88665653081397230782012-06-21T16:03:08.378-04:002012-06-21T16:03:08.378-04:00Thinking this matter through, it really strikes me...Thinking this matter through, it really strikes me that, if you accept McWhorter's interpretations, the "why/gee/gosh" is funamentally respectful of the listener, as it is trying to avoid offense. The "you know/man/dude" is a rhetorical gimmick to con agreement from the listener.Bill Dalasiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02173046870648262751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-75605185927305281842012-06-21T14:57:07.066-04:002012-06-21T14:57:07.066-04:00When exasperated, I have been known to exclaim, &q...When exasperated, I have been known to exclaim, "Oh, for the Love of Life Orchestra!" <br /><br />One detail that McWhorter didn't seem to take into account is that Mitt Romney is about fifteen years older than Barack Obama. That has to count for something, especially where the use of profanity is concerned.werewifenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-58194232282937410502012-06-21T14:50:14.925-04:002012-06-21T14:50:14.925-04:00I thought that virtually everybody varies their sp...I thought that virtually everybody varies their speech a lot depending on who they're speaking with. How I speak with business associates is radically different than how I speak with college age kids which is radically different than how I speak with children which is radically different than how I speak with someone who speaks spanish, etc. I modify my speech to best communicate with those around me.<br /><br />That's what's a little odd about Romney's choice of idioms on the campaign trail. Given that he also probably modifies his speech depending on who he is speaking with, is it really the best he can do to connect with people? Or has he really been so sheltered his whole life that he hasn't developed any alternative speaking styles?Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063508651955739056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-27165577765751769992012-06-21T14:43:48.567-04:002012-06-21T14:43:48.567-04:00The phoniest bit of political word substitution ou...The phoniest bit of political word substitution out there is Obama's consistent use of "folks" for "people" as in "Folks that are still hurtin'..." There's no way that's natural to him. The same thing goes for when he drops his g's, which he often does when he talks about "folks." He's just tryin' to sound folksy, and it's as phony as a three dollar bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-10288740003541079022012-06-21T14:37:52.023-04:002012-06-21T14:37:52.023-04:00"tokens of dissimulation" Does he mean ..."tokens of dissimulation" Does he mean like, "as I've always said before" that Obama uses just before he tells a whopper? ;->=<br /><br />And why is it that so many of "the elite" come off sounding so Pauline Kael-like when they discuss the hoi polloi?JorgXMcKiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509568525555189690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-59141342952135311132012-06-21T14:37:33.537-04:002012-06-21T14:37:33.537-04:00Hey - Instalanche for you. Nice.
I agree with RLC...Hey - Instalanche for you. Nice.<br /><br />I agree with RLC (lol @ the "goddamn stupid") and I still use "gosh" all the time. And "geez". I guess I really don't care what people think of it. It's just me.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-11650191777724616422012-06-21T14:07:54.028-04:002012-06-21T14:07:54.028-04:00Well, you may recall that Reagan impersonators alw...Well, you may recall that Reagan impersonators always threw in a "well," while they cocked their head and gave an aw shucks answer. He was brilliant at connecting with his audience. He honed his delivery and style touring GE plants all over the country, of course.<br /><br />It's important to practice public speaking. I'm sure Obama practices in front of a mirror.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-68110560741817213062012-06-21T13:44:57.823-04:002012-06-21T13:44:57.823-04:00Most ordinary citizens who tried to run for presid...<i>Most ordinary citizens who tried to run for president would probably come off as wooden and unhip. The candidate who can connect with most people is actually unlike most people.</i><br /><br />Peggy Noonan made a similar observation about Ronald Reagan, pointing out that if an authentic Mr. Smith really did go to Washington he wouldn't have sounded like Mr. Smith while campaigning or in front of the media - partly because he wouldn't even have been trying to sound "like himself" but rather like a Congressman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-29445335937068058602012-06-21T13:40:27.789-04:002012-06-21T13:40:27.789-04:00McWhorter's doing a good job parsing the Engli...McWhorter's doing a good job parsing the English usage of his own set.<br /><br />The problem is that he doesn't realize that his own set isn't the only set. McWhorter's view of America is parochial.<br /><br />I come from a set of folks who happen not to use profanity unless seriously provoked. Also we tend to be more constrained in our conversational kinesics than some American subcultures.<br /><br />As a result, when I got out into the larger world and had conversations with people who had a smaller sense of personal space, a more energetic set of conversational kinesics, and who were prone to dropping F-bombs constantly, I had to learn to slow my heart rate and not think, "Holy crap, this dude's a raging, out of control maniac and I'm worried he's about to kill me."<br /><br />Seriously. Take someone coming from a mix genteel southern manners and strict Lutheranism as inculcated by the mothering of a Southern Belle and the Fathering of a cool, Apollonian, Atticus Finch kind of father, and put him in the presence of a little Italian guy from Brooklyn who swears a lot, and when the Italian guy just thinks he's having an animated conversation, the former guy is wondering whether he needs to back up or maybe settle his hand discretely near the butt of his concealed carry piece.<br /><br />So Mitt Romney sounds fairly normal to me...for a certain perfectly respectable and not-uncommon subculture of our very diverse American life. If I thought that he'd been raised on a diet of Chris Rock, I'd be surprised, but he obviously wasn't.<br /><br />And likewise, the Italian dude who originally made me so nervous is no problem any more. (In fact, he cuts my hair.)<br /><br />One other interesting story: In college there was a guy, a friend of a friend, who for some reason got into the habit of making fun of one of my facial features within three minutes of the first time I met him and then kept doing it every five minutes in all four of our subsequent encounters.<br /><br />So I was getting self-conscious in the extreme and angry in the extreme. Although I was trying to be polite, I was nearing a point where I might have to smash his face in.<br /><br />So I told him, firmly and with very precise diction, to go F*** himself.<br /><br />He just laughed.<br /><br />But my friends, who had introduced me to him, knew me better and their eyes got very wide, and they got quite quiet, as I'd intended. THEY were getting the point, even if he wasn't.<br /><br />So then, to help him get the point, I quietly mused to my self, "Y'know, I don't think I've ever said that word before."<br /><br />At which point both my friends chimed in and said, yeah, they'd never heard me say that, either.<br /><br />At which point the other guy finally clued in and said, "Oh...you must be really mad, then!"<br /><br />It took him knowing that an F-bomb was utterly abnormal for me, for me to communicate with him.<br /><br />So, folks have different dialects when it comes to interjections of this kind. As we mature we adjust to other folks' dialects.<br /><br />McWhorter, a linguist, really ought to be more flexible in this regard.R.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679435933685771007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-21932295142207788062012-06-21T13:39:24.678-04:002012-06-21T13:39:24.678-04:00Most ordinary citizens who tried to run for presid...<i>Most ordinary citizens who tried to run for president would probably come off as wooden and unhip. The candidate who can connect with most people is actually unlike most people.</i><br /><br />Peggy Noonan made a similar observation about Ronald Reagan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-44894273355536452372012-06-21T13:26:49.309-04:002012-06-21T13:26:49.309-04:00I rather like the why interjection; Reminds me of ...I rather like the why interjection; Reminds me of one of my favorite speeches:<br /><br />"Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do."<br /><br />Gen Patton.<br /><br />And here may be the connection:<br />http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/06/6007295/george-romney-almost-got-speaking-lessons-george-c-scottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-52414730088830742612012-06-21T13:14:12.384-04:002012-06-21T13:14:12.384-04:00Romney's biggest weakness is that he says &quo...Romney's biggest weakness is that he says "Gosh." Obama's biggest weakness is 8-9% unemployment with rising inflation.Charlie Schnickelfritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08199454184218576770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-67051229403758541632012-06-21T12:08:33.476-04:002012-06-21T12:08:33.476-04:00"You paint your face and then you chase
To me..."You paint your face and then you chase<br />To meet the gang where the action is<br />Stomp all night<br />And drink your fizz<br />Roll your car and say "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdilwJd6KQI" rel="nofollow">'Gee whiz!'</a><br /><br /><i>On the way down, they saw a figure who appeared to be staggering up the road. It was Barry Obama. What was going on? As they drew closer, they noticed that he was laughing so hard he could barely stand up. “Where is everyone? Where’s Russell?” they asked him. “Kukes rolled his car. It’s upside down in the middle of the road!” Barry said.</i><br /><br />Maraniss, David (2012-06-19). Barack Obama (p. 295). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00117933390338651739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-7216901429251924612012-06-20T08:37:11.119-04:002012-06-20T08:37:11.119-04:00Interestingly, the people mentioned have the exact...Interestingly, the people mentioned have the exact opposite effect on me. The first - and every - time I heard Clinton or Obama speak, my reaction was to ask, "Who is this buffoon and who does he think he's fooling with this crap?" We know the answer to that question and, unfortunately, it was and still is a whole lot of people. As with wyo sis, Mitt and Sarah sound completely normal to me.netmarcoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00089676150265778216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-21399961972384942412012-06-20T01:22:32.922-04:002012-06-20T01:22:32.922-04:00Interesting post, but -as Ron said- Obama doesn...Interesting post, but -as Ron said- Obama doesn't connect with me. In my case it was mostly the way he takes himself so seriously.<br /><br />The comment from the TNR reader is -to me- bizarre. While it's possible (if slightly silly) to consider "Why," as <i>naive</i>, "creepy" makes no sense at all, unless one has an allergy to normal "fly-over" human beings. ;)<br /><br />I would have to say that in my life Reagan was the best speaker. Not in the formal sense as with Obama, but in that he came across as very natural, yet relaxed & effective. Sometimes simplicity carries an elegance all its own.Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01009510589472382510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-83007731027486997092012-06-20T00:22:34.789-04:002012-06-20T00:22:34.789-04:00I'm sure I show my age, but Mitt sounds like a...I'm sure I show my age, but Mitt sounds like a lot of people I grew up with and a lot of people I talk to now. Maybe it's a Western thing or a Mormon thing. Lots of both where I live. Sarah Palin sounds more familiar to me as well, although it's more like Minnesota. Obama sounds to my ear, like either a person condescending to me or a frat boy. Neither make me like him any better. His mannerisms have the same vibe.wyo sishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00985513448269574373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-3364988407999498192012-06-20T00:18:08.159-04:002012-06-20T00:18:08.159-04:00Obama does not connect with me or persuade me at a...Obama does not connect with me or persuade me at all...and not because of the politics. Living in an academic town, I've long ago learn to put up my guard against such "Teflonized" speech...gosh, it even inspires mistrust, like an older generation would gauge an appliance salesman. I sometimes feel my flesh crawl when he speaks...a generation of job seeking poseurs has mutated me!Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791314877257904422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-12909326978710931802012-06-18T11:09:25.161-04:002012-06-18T11:09:25.161-04:00I like to use "gee" here in middle Ameri...I like to use "gee" here in middle America. Its innocent enthusiasm is sorely needed in our culture today. And it's advisable in a place where a significant percentage of people are truly distressed, on religious rather than prudish grounds, by the use of God, Jesus, damn, and hell. <br /><br />I once became suspicious of a lovely Iowa woman I was dating, because she said "golly." That was goddamn stupid of me.Richard Lawrence Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951947957345891398noreply@blogger.com