tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post6843464413790462072..comments2024-01-23T17:14:04.067-05:00Comments on Jaltcoh: Could teaching nonfiction as literature improve American kids' reading ability?John Althouse Cohenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-63247373183589103602010-04-02T09:56:23.123-04:002010-04-02T09:56:23.123-04:00Sorry for my mistake about "Their Eyes Were W...Sorry for my mistake about "Their Eyes Were Watching God." I haven't read it!<br /><br />Jason: I agree about the desirability of teaching foreign-language literature in translation. To some extent this is done: World Lit is commonly taught in grade 10; and again multiculturalism promotes inclusion of various foreign classics as supplemental pieces in American and Brit literature. The Odyssey is often taught in high school. I think to some extent the teaching of American Lit is thought of as connected to American History.<br /><br />Dan: Good point, and funding for classes in visual art and music appreciation, which used to be standard, has notoriously evaporated in recent years. On the other hand, teaching literature, whether fiction or nonfiction, is a way of teaching reading, and everyone needs to read, while not everyone needs to play an instrument. Also, the delivery system for literature is much more convenient for school than that for visual art or music. When you read Poe in a textbook, it's the actual experience; when you see a reproduction of a Winslow Homer, it's only an approximation. And paints, musical instruments, etc. are messy and/or require a lot of room and/or make noise. (Just riffing here -- I haven't thought this out much.)Richard Lawrence Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951947957345891398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-56976749635008409782010-04-02T09:18:43.459-04:002010-04-02T09:18:43.459-04:00Another way to think about the amount of non-ficti...Another way to think about the amount of non-fiction taught in school. . . is the right baseline "ratio of fiction to non-fiction" or is the right baseline "fiction relative to the other arts?" That is, why does literature have a privileged place among the arts? Why are students exposed to so few serious works of art in music, dance, visual arts?Dan Willinghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13889393633758932640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-42978411648543606142010-04-01T21:21:51.330-04:002010-04-01T21:21:51.330-04:00Fahrenheit 451 was the only book I enjoyed reading...<i>Fahrenheit 451 </i>was the only book I enjoyed reading that was assigned to me in class. And I was under the covers each night, voraciously reading books, throughout my high school years.<br /><br />After the teachers, I would say the problem with the reading material is not its focus on fiction over non-fiction but its abhorrence of commercial material; after that, its abhorrence of books written in a foreign language. If someone bothered to translate a book into English, it's probably good; better than the average book you'll find in a bookstore written in English. They're the only truly multicultural experience you can have.Jason (the commenter)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16045360562791361484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-85850267452380242692010-04-01T20:02:28.862-04:002010-04-01T20:02:28.862-04:00RLC:Ultimately, I think that if more nonfiction we...RLC:<i>Ultimately, I think that if more nonfiction were put on the curriculum, it would bore kids just as much as fiction and poetry do now.<br /><br /></i>Yes, they'd still have the same teachers.Jason (the commenter)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16045360562791361484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-1184782539644103682010-04-01T12:28:49.242-04:002010-04-01T12:28:49.242-04:00Thanks for stopping by, Dana!
Thanks, Dad, for th...Thanks for stopping by, Dana!<br /><br />Thanks, Dad, for the corrections/clarifications. I was aware when I was writing this that I'm hardly ominiscient about what reading assignments are given across the country -- I pretty much assumed that my experience reflected everyone else's. <br /><br /><i>Currently, "Black Boy" and "Their Eyes Were Watching God" and some others are at least excerpted in anthologies, and sometimes assigned, or given as options, in toto. Multiculturalism has been a boost to the reading of nonfiction in schools.</i> <br /><br />Good point about multiculturalism, although <i>Their Eyes Were Watching God</i> is fiction. I wish nonfiction writing were appreciated as meritorious in its own right without needing to be justified on diversity grounds.John Althouse Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-85015613298330795592010-04-01T11:46:18.285-04:002010-04-01T11:46:18.285-04:00Dana's right in saying that novels are more of...Dana's right in saying that novels are more often assigned than nonfiction books, although exceptions can be found, a couple of which she mentions. I think a wider and deeper selection of nonfiction books would be great. Currently, "Black Boy" and "Their Eyes Were Watching God" and some others are at least excerpted in anthologies, and sometimes assigned, or given as options, in toto. Multiculturalism has been a boost to the reading of nonfiction in schools. BTW, I think Orwell's essay on language would be a wonderful assignment. It might be considered too difficult or controversial -- a persistent obstacle in curriculum design in English.Richard Lawrence Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951947957345891398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-15797615961513791522010-04-01T11:16:50.775-04:002010-04-01T11:16:50.775-04:00Great post, John, and thank you for reading my art...Great post, John, and thank you for reading my article and linking to it! Just want to clarify--per Richard's comment--that when I wrote that in "no grade do kids typically read non-fiction," I was referring to non-fiction *books* in particular. Should have made that clear in the piece. I myself read Orwell's "Shooting an Elephant" in school, though I can't remember which year.<br /><br />Keep up the smart blogging!Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02030208850815774816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-21981405617399279672010-04-01T09:38:05.894-04:002010-04-01T09:38:05.894-04:00English-language literature wasn't part of the...English-language literature wasn't part of the standard curriculum till about a century ago, precisely because it was considered entertainment rather than serious intellectual work (unless it was in Latin or Greek, which added the mental exercise of learning a language). Not having heard about Shakespeare in school didn't seem to hurt Milton or Keats; on the contrary, it freed them to love him without duress.<br /><br />And this leaves aside the question of whether being studied in schools and universities is good for literature. Experience trying to read the fiction of university-trained contemporary writers doesn't convince me it's so.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I think Yglesias & Co. are underestimating the extent to which nonfiction is taught in schools. I write English textbooks for a living, at all grade levels, and the typical basal anthology has at least one unit on essays as well as those on fiction, drama, and poetry. I'm currently writing a series of 16-32-page readers for the elementary grades, and fiction and nonfiction are evenly divided, as is standard in the field. "In no grade do students typically read nonfiction..." is factually wrong. It's not implausible that as many high school students have read (or at least been assigned) Orwell's "Shooting an Elephant" as "1984" or "Animal Farm," because short works are more frequently assigned. And when textbooks are arranged chronologically, as they usually are with upper-grade American and British literature, an increasing percentage of nonfiction has been included in the past generation: for instance, slave narratives and Civil War diaries or letters and Lincoln's speeches are now standard in the units on Civil War literature, in addition to Whitman's poetry and Crane's fiction. As many students are now stultified by Chief Seattle's "I will fight no more forever" speech as used to be by William Cullen Bryant's "Thanatopsis."<br /><br />Ultimately, I think that if more nonfiction were put on the curriculum, it would bore kids just as much as fiction and poetry do now. And the idea that boys don't like fiction is ridiculous. All those comic books and video games and the movies derived from them are fiction, while the celebrity magazines targeted at girls are, in theory, nonfiction.Richard Lawrence Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951947957345891398noreply@blogger.com