tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post726483834859309707..comments2024-01-23T17:14:04.067-05:00Comments on Jaltcoh: Live-blogging the first Obama vs. McCain presidential debateJohn Althouse Cohenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-48984257434508277602008-09-30T14:05:00.000-04:002008-09-30T14:05:00.000-04:00Debbie, for what it's worth, I would have found Mc...Debbie, for what it's worth, I would have found McCain rude if he'd been "Barry"-ing away with Obama calling him Senator McCain. I understand your point of view though.Eowynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509838210190460717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-5244296143054611232008-09-30T10:12:00.000-04:002008-09-30T10:12:00.000-04:00Eowyn, I guess our interpretations are probably in...Eowyn, I guess our interpretations are probably influenced by the way we lean. To me, McCain's formality came across as rude. To you, Obama's informality was rude. <BR/><BR/>Presidential debates tend to be less formal than debates in Congress. This particular debate was set up to be more of a conversation between the 2 candidates. Lehrer tried to get them to speak directly to each other - Obama did, McCain didn't.Debbie Does Nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14536793621719707542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-2443838912839121792008-09-30T00:28:00.000-04:002008-09-30T00:28:00.000-04:00Also on that note-- a presidential debate is a for...Also on that note-- a presidential debate is a formal occasion. Senators may use first names with each other in private, committees, etc., but I've never seen them do it on the Senate floor in the middle of debate. Although that may just be my impatience with CSPAN.Eowynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509838210190460717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-73101086406383696632008-09-30T00:26:00.000-04:002008-09-30T00:26:00.000-04:00Debbie, I just thought it was odd when McCain cons...Debbie, I just thought it was odd when McCain consistently referred to him as Senator Obama. Plus, I'm a military brat-- I grew up around yes sir, no ma'am. I called my mother-in-law Mrs. until the day I got married:)Eowynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509838210190460717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-37027042679353070152008-09-29T19:32:00.000-04:002008-09-29T19:32:00.000-04:00Eowyn, how exactly is it disrespectful for one sen...Eowyn, how exactly is it disrespectful for one senator to address another senator by his first name? In the Dem debates, the candidates addressed each other by first name all the time.<BR/><BR/>Or do you mean that Obama doesn't have enough respect for his elders? Because I will certainly concede that McCain is much, much older.Debbie Does Nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14536793621719707542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-88195172070049958832008-09-29T14:40:00.000-04:002008-09-29T14:40:00.000-04:00My main impression was that it makes my teeth grin...My main impression was that it makes my teeth grind every time Obama calls McCain "John". (I only caught the first 25 minutes, though.) It's probably just that I'm a military brat, but that's just... disrespectful, somehow. Especially as McCain wasn't calling Obama "Barry". Other impressions: Yeah, McCain needed to get off the earmarks soapbox. They suck, but as Obama said, they're not anywhere near as big as the other budgetary problems. If McCain had stuck to the $800 billion Obama is planning on spending, perhaps tacking on the fact that that's more than the bailout is supposed to cost, he might have scored some serious points with regular people. Especially if he had addressed the fact that all money spent by the government is taxpayers' money.<BR/><BR/>And Obama needs to stop saying Pohkeeston. I'm a linguist-- if he's going to code switch trying to sound educated, he's going to have to learn the native pronunciations of Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia... the list goes on. If he just does it when he wants to sound impressive, he sounds like a phony.Eowynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509838210190460717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-54251115197949085162008-09-27T17:03:00.001-04:002008-09-27T17:03:00.001-04:00One thing I noticed in the after debate analysis w...One thing I noticed in the after debate analysis was the nearly exclusive focus on sound bites and body language ...everything but the substance of what was said. Now I get that the visual differences of the Kennedy-Nixon debates are now folk-lore, but it's gotten to the point that there is so little attention paid to the substance of what was said, people have invented a new measure for debates: did it 'sound' intelligent?' did it 'look' presidential?<BR/><BR/>So it is now obvious to any intellectually honest observer that Obama's approach to Iraq was to pull out troops, regardless of the consequences, to placate a liberal base during a presidential primary. In essence, lose the war on the grounds that continuing 'wasn't worth it'. We now know that precisely the opposite approach was needed in Iraq, the surge, his opponent in this race was a major proponent of this, and it has worked even beyond Obama's wildest expectations. Obama refuses to admit he was wrong to this day.<BR/><BR/>So what does Obama do when pressed to explain how he can’t admit the obvious? He claims that ‘we took our eye off the ball’ while winning in Iraq, and Afghanistan is now more violent. Let’s not even get into what Afghanistan, or even the region as a whole, would be like had we took Obama’s advice and lost in Iraq, but what is so preposterous about the argument is that it is such an obvious attempt to grasp for any kind of negative consequence* of actually winning in Iraq. In any normal kind of universe, the presidential candidate frantically arguing for a downside to winning a war wouldn’t have made it to Super Tuesday.<BR/><BR/>To hear anyone make such a ridiculous argument in a debate, and then comment that they ‘went toe to toe with McCain’ or ‘sounded fluent and intelligent’, can only be done if you aren’t even listening to what they are saying. To go further and say, that Obama only had to hold his own in a foreign policy debate, so he ‘won’, could only mean it’s the same definition for winning that Obama apparently subscribes to.<BR/><BR/>*(You can almost see his campaign brainstorming in front of a white board, listing any kind of negative consequence to winning in Iraq they could think of. Eradicating insurgents in Iraq so successfully that they’ve fled to one of the few remaining lawless areas in the region, the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, was apparently the best they could come up with.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-15379341561517902642008-09-27T17:03:00.000-04:002008-09-27T17:03:00.000-04:00Anonymous said: "If McCain was 'absolutely right'...Anonymous said: "If McCain was 'absolutely right' about a number of issues.....why vote for Obama?"<BR/><BR/>What Obama said was he's right "but." The "but" outlined where Obama differs from McCain. McCain was speaking in generalities we can all agree on and Obama gave us specifics about what he would do. <BR/><BR/>I think Obama's willingness to find common ground between McCain and himself shows his ability to be bipartisan. He was reaching across the aisle while McCain refused to show Obama (and therefore people who agree with him) any respect.Debbie Does Nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14536793621719707542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-24434110257886255042008-09-27T08:54:00.000-04:002008-09-27T08:54:00.000-04:00JAC, I must have missed the transition point in Mc...JAC, I must have missed the transition point in McCain's comments. I'll defer to you on that one. Any distortion of the issue on my part was unintended.<BR/><BR/>As for the contrast in the candidates' debating strategies, I stand by the point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-74478403227651923042008-09-27T01:55:00.000-04:002008-09-27T01:55:00.000-04:00"Earlier today I was listening to the Beatles song..."Earlier today I was listening to the Beatles song "Wait" (from Rubber Soul)"<BR/><BR/>..'Wait'..Really? Not 'Wait' by White Lion..well. Oh my sweet and dear fluffy lord. You need Shakabuku...a swift, spiritual kick to the head. That is just wrong thinking appreciation of Beatles genius.<BR/><BR/>As for Pah-kee-stahn, masticate upon Christopher Hitchens:<BR/><BR/>"...and on Pakistani soil and under the very noses of its army and the ISI, the city of Quetta and the so-called Federally Administered Tribal Areas are becoming the incubating ground of a reorganized and protected al-Qaida. Sen. Barack Obama has, if anything, been the more militant of the two presidential candidates in stressing the danger here and the need to act without too much sentiment about our so-called Islamabad ally. He began using this rhetoric when it was much simpler to counterpose the "good" war in Afghanistan with the "bad" one in Iraq. Never mind that now; he is committed in advance to a serious projection of American power into the heartland of our deadliest enemy. And that, I think, is another reason why so many people are reluctant to employ truthful descriptions for the emerging Afghan-Pakistan confrontation: American liberals can't quite face the fact that if their man does win in November, and if he has meant a single serious word he's ever said, it means more war, and more bitter and protracted war at that—not less."<BR/><BR/>ah, what the hell..been there done that. Lousy food in Zhob..and most of Baluchistan.<BR/><BR/>Nice blog. Mf.MacFauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09736719379339297190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-2719724384192628482008-09-27T00:11:00.000-04:002008-09-27T00:11:00.000-04:00Also, I'm pretty sure that McCain has supported Bu...Also, I'm pretty sure that McCain has supported Bush's unilateral strikes inside Pakistan. So this is not purely hypothetical. <BR/><BR/>You're distorting the issue by suggesting that it's about Obama's wild plan to "attack" Pakistan. Obama, McCain, and Bush are all in favor of unilateral strikes in Pakistan if necessary. It's going on right now, and McCain supports it.John Althouse Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-82084387130025318392008-09-27T00:09:00.000-04:002008-09-27T00:09:00.000-04:00JAC, regarding your 9:55 comment, McCain was refer...<I>JAC, regarding your 9:55 comment, McCain was referring to Obama's threat from last year to attack Pakistan. McCain was not alluding to a plan of his own to do so. </I><BR/><BR/>You are incorrect about that. <BR/><BR/>The discussion did start out talking about Obama's comment, but then McCain talked in general terms about what he will and will not do.John Althouse Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-60917072716056767382008-09-27T00:02:00.000-04:002008-09-27T00:02:00.000-04:00JAC, regarding your 9:55 comment, McCain was refer...JAC, regarding your 9:55 comment, McCain was referring to Obama's threat from last year to attack Pakistan. McCain was not alluding to a plan of his own to do so. <BR/><BR/>In fact, McCain made several references this evening that presupposed some foreknowledge on the audience's part. I'm not sure that's a wise assumption for him to make, but at least it regards us as an informed citizenry.<BR/><BR/>Obama, on tbe other hand, repeatedly banged the gong of "Bush = McCain." That approach presumes an uninformed audience. I fear his asumption may be the more sound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-64835309133570544182008-09-26T23:09:00.000-04:002008-09-26T23:09:00.000-04:00How many times did Obama say: "McCain is absolute...How many times did Obama say: "McCain is absolutely right"<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc<BR/><BR/><BR/>If McCain was 'absolutely right' about a number of issues.....why vote for Obama? .....other than that he's Black...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-24981366452118406212008-09-26T23:05:00.000-04:002008-09-26T23:05:00.000-04:00Rehashed and watered down? This is because you and...Rehashed and watered down? <BR/><BR/>This is because you and I and just about everyone and their mother-in-law's hairstylist's brother who by the way isn't even in this country is suffering from campaign fatigue.<BR/><BR/>Fatuous and quote honestly, flatulent, soundbiting from both sides at every possible moment they can take, and we the viewers are none the better for it.One Fine Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17802081467857167307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-84542039424467590332008-09-26T23:03:00.000-04:002008-09-26T23:03:00.000-04:00"Ah, were you watching the same debate I was? John..."Ah, were you watching the same debate I was? John McCain ate Obama's lunch."<BR/><BR/>Huh? Obama focused on the big picture, while McCain could only drone on about minutia like Nunn-Lugar and "keep you eye on the Ukraine" and the Russian port of Kqgiusgiu, blah, blah, blah. WTF?<BR/><BR/>Ideologically, I hate both of these guys, but Obama came off as articulate and focussed, while McCain just rambled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-5190490721435489872008-09-26T22:47:00.000-04:002008-09-26T22:47:00.000-04:00McCain is in his element when talking about Milita...McCain is in his element when talking about Military and foreign policy.<BR/><BR/>As for the economy, there's no solution, so I think both of them lost on that issue. <BR/><BR/>The economy can't be fixed other than just to let it bottom out and rise again on it's own. Naturally, no Candidate is going to say that, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-5106139702391903382008-09-26T22:45:00.000-04:002008-09-26T22:45:00.000-04:00Do you take suggestions from readers? On future d...Do you take suggestions from readers? <BR/><BR/>On future debates, you should put up a chatbox, to do live chat. <BR/><BR/>You can go to ' meebo.com ' and create your own chat room to install right in blogposts .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4464222071440015933.post-28482653456742785642008-09-26T22:43:00.000-04:002008-09-26T22:43:00.000-04:00Sorry to be anonymous -- it's the only way I can p...Sorry to be anonymous -- it's the only way I can post to your site.<BR/><BR/>Ah, were you watching the same debate I was? John McCain ate Obama's lunch. As I expected him to. The key for Obama will be whether he has someone on his staff who will be honest with him and tell him so, so that he can recover. My bet is that he doesn't and therefore won't. But I've been wrong before -- I did after all vote for Carter in '76.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com